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Monday, March 26, 2007

Mike's Hands on Report: Step By Step How To Rip DVDs for AppleTV with MediaFork

Hey all -

so I sat down and doodled some more with my AppleTV last night and today, and here's what I learned.

OVERVIEW:

What is DVD

DVDs for widescreen movies are anamorphic 720x480 - this means that if you look at the image with all the pixels as tall as they are wide, it looks wrong - the image looks too tall (or not wide enough - same thing). To get the image to look proper, you need to either crush it vertically or stretch it horizontally. And therein lies a key quality decision - if you crush it vertically, you're losing vertical resolution. if you stretch it horizontally, you maintain the resolution.

In order to maintain full resolution and display with square pixels, you want to keep the 480 pixels tall, and stretch the horizontal pixels wider to get the aspect ratio in order and get the pixels to square display.

For 16:9 movies (a 1.78 aspect ratio), the 720 pixels needs to be stretched to 854 pixels wide. I'll explain best way shortly.

Apple's downloadable movies take the cheap way out - they scale the 720 wide pixels to 640 pixels, then scale the vertical size to 360 or less (depending on aspect ratio - the "wider" the aspect ratio, the shorter in height they make it).

For iTunes video downloads (and your own converted videos for playing on iPod Video) the max datarate is 1.5 megabits H.264. Apple COULD use 640x480 size and use anamorphic display, but they chose to use smaller pixel dimensions to get better video quality at the limited datarate the hardware could handle. Perhaps we'll see separate AppleTV optimized videos in the future that are larger? I'd guess that in order to differentiate them from the iPod video size, they'd skip straight to 1280x720 (or 1280 by whatever less for aspect ratio reasons)

So, let's see how to make the best possible video conversions from DVDs for your AppleTV.

The best tool I've found so far had been Handbrake. When I went looking for the latest version, I discovered they've merrged with another company to make a new/revised product, and it is called MediaFork">MediaFork. You're going to want to download and install it.

I've got a couple of different DVDs I've been testing with - The Sciene of Sleep is a 1.85:1 aspect ratio.

MediaFork Configuration for AppleTV rips fo DVDs

If I fire up MediaFork, I can configure it for optimal output of AppleTV files.

Here's how to do it:

1.) Insert your DVD (we're going to start with 1.85 pixel aspect ratio movies first)

2.) If DVD Player starts up automatically, quit it.

3.) Launch MediaFork

4.) Select the DVD in the "Detected Volume" (should do so automatically)

NOTE - click on any of these images for a larger view, but be warned it'll take you to a new page with just the image. Yes, my coding skills are weak and/or I'm lazy, take your pick. So command-click in Safari if you have Tabs enabled is my recommendation


5.) Press Open, it'll scan the chapters



6.) Title and Chapters will take care of themselves. The first thing you'll want to change is the destination - click the Browse button if the desktop isn't where you want it to go.

7.) Now is where we need to start actually changing settings from the defaults. The first one to change is under Output Settings - the File Format is already correct, but we need to change the Codecs setting from MP4 to AVC/H.264 / AAC Audio



8.) Then make sure the Encoder is set to X264 (h.264 main)

9.) Average bitrate is set to 2250 (this is my guesstimate to maintain picture quality on par with Apple's downloadable videos at the larger size we're going to use)

Note - this is pretty good quality, but scenes with a lot of motion will probably block up a bit. High data rates will yield better quality, up to a limit of how good the original DVD looked in the first place. Exactly how high you can go before you run into diminishing or non-existent improvements is something I haven't tested but am interested in the answer. The answer will also vary on a scene by scene basis - a static shot of someone standing in front of a white wall uses lots less bandwidth than, say, a panning wide shot of a city on fire - the more stuff changes frame to frame, the more bandwidth is needed to maintain a given quality level per frame. If you haven't dealt with compression before, it is a complicated subject. But it has been suggested that my suggested datarate is higher than optimal - I don't know yet, but while I may be overdoing it here, I'm confident this will look pretty good. I'm converting these to play back on my 60" 1080p set, so I want them to look REALLY good, a close match to the source DVD in quality.

10.) Click the 2-pass encoding option to ON

Your Video settings should now look like this:



11. Now click on the Picture Settings button - on the screen that comes up, click the Anamorphic (PAR) button. Keep Aspect Ratio should be OFF. You should see something like this:



12. Click Close

13.) You should see something like this:



14.) Now click on the Audio tab (next to Video)

15.) Change Sample Rate to 48, Bitrate to 160 (these are somewhat arbitrary, just what I prefer to use). EDIT/UPDATE: I'm choosing 5.1 audio in this example, banking that Apple will EVENTUALLY support it in AppleTV, but they don't as yet. Chose the stereo option if you want to save file size or are pessimistic. You should now see this:



16.) Click Rip in the bottom left corner, it will start encoding your movie. This will take approximately forever - depends on the movie length and the speed of your Mac. You'll see something like this:



17.) When it finishes, let's see what we've got. Drag your new movie to the QuickTime Player application icon to open it in QT Player, you'll see something like this:



See how everything looks too tall? That is because we're looking at an amamorphic image. In order for this to be viewed properly while still maintaining resolution, we need to stretch the image wider. How wide? While the aspect ratio is 1.85, our display is only 1.78 - so we multiply our image height (480 pixels) by 1.78 to get 854. How do we make it that wide? Easy - with QuickTime Player Pro. You have to have the Pro version - the standard version lacks the needed features. It is $29 from Apple online, or comes with Final Cut Studio. You want QT 7.1.5 for all this.

18.) To do this, press Command-J to see the Properties window. Click on the Video Track and then the Video Settings tab to see this:



19.) Uncheck Preserve Aspect Ratio, and change the Scaled Size first number from 720 to 854.

20.) If it isn't checked, make sure High Quality is turned on. You should be seeing something like this:



OK, now the should be looking right - circles should be round, not too tall or too wide.

The catch is, you need to save these settings for them to stick. If you just hit Command-S, you get a Save As dialog, since a simple .mp4 file can't remember to display stretched, so it has to be a QuickTime movie. Select Self Contained Movie and save it wherever you want it to go. Before pressing Save, you should see something like this:



OK, now you've got a movie. Want to watch it on your AppleTV? It has to go through iTunes, so drag your NEW movie icon (the one that ends with .mov, not .mp4) to the iTunes icon in the dock.

Once it is imported into iTunes (and I recommend using the Keep iTunes Libary organized so it'll copy the file to a stashed directory), you can sync iTunes with your AppleTV and make sure this new movie file gets copied over (but that's another posting).

It should display correctly in iTunes, and moer importantly, on your AppleTV and you should be good to go.

OK, it is late, so I'm going to wrap this up for now - unfortunately, I'm having trouble with Casino Royale and its 2.40:1 aspect ratio - MediaFork refuses to process full 720x480, I get 720 by less than 480. So I need to figure that out. In theory, the playback sizes should be:

for AppleTV 1.78:1 aspect ratio playback (standard 16:9): 854 pixels wide by 480 tall.

UPDATE: For 2.40:1 aspect ratio movies (like Blood Diamond and Casino Royale), if you go with the non-anamorphic defaults, you'd get 720x300 or a square pixel movie. If you wanted iPod Video compatibility, you'd have to bring that down to 266 pixels tall and 640 wide. So my way, we're getting a 50% increase in overall resolution. You still want to do the QT Player trick to stretch it to 854 pixel playback - that'll be the case with all anamorphic DVD conversions.

If you discover that I've got something wrong here, or you find out something new and useful, please add it to the Comments below.

-mike

PS - some have suggested a "Rent, Rip, Return" model with Netflix or the like, so you could add to your video library. I think that would be illegal AFAIK, and not fair to the content creators to hang onto a copy of a rental. Would you like it if somebody did that with the movie YOU made?

205 comments:

1 – 200 of 205   Newer›   Newest»
Anonymous said...

Mike,

Following your Detail Inst on DVD ripping to Apple TV. I found something strange... I was setting up rip Blood Diamond (widescreen version) and in my output it reads 720 x 360. Can you tell me if your version did the same.. Please keep in mind these setting are found in the section click picture settings.

rob

Mike Curtis said...

Yeah, that's the problem.

If you unclick Maintain Aspect Ratio and click Anamorophic (PAR), you should be able to select 720x480. And you can.

But it cooks out a 720x360 movie - NOT anamorphic after all...maybe it is a 2.40:1 cropped for 1.78:1 display...I need to doodle with this some more to be sure, and it's late and I'm tired and that is why I stopped where I did.

I suspect that may be the proper aspect ratio after all in the end - bummer...I want 1152x480, but I don't think the picture works that way - they crop for a 16:9 display, so you HAVE to crop some pixels if it is wider than 1.78:1

Anonymous said...

Or, you could pop it into your dvd player next to your appletv and hit play....

kiss

Anonymous said...

Mike, I'm trying to reconcile your observation to click Anamorphic with some comments on the Handbrake/Mediafork board that Apple doesn't support Anamorphic on any of it's platforms. Now these comments were written before AppleTV delivered, but since it is running OSX, I'd assume that it should be the same.

So anyway, I spent all weekend encoding DVD's for my kids without Anamorphic selected and didn't even bother to go back and view them to see how they looked. I'll have to do that tonight.

Couple of other points: several of the Handbrake users suggested 1450-1500 as optimal. Also, CD's at least are mastered at 44.1. I don't recall if DVD's are the same or not. If so, 48 would be of no use.

thanks for the site. great work.

Anonymous said...

Mike - good writeup. One thing I have encountered is that when I browse to a dvd(or location where I have copied/burned a copy) MediaFork only reads in the trailers but not the actual movie. What am I doing wrong?

Matt said...

I think this is a good write-up, and it seems like the intstructions basically work regardless of aspect ratio. I've used Handbrake a lot for iPod, and I didn't know about the lower resolution of 1.85 movies. As someone who does some tech blogging, I know it takes a hell of a lot of time to write stuff up and make sure it is right (not to mention all of the research that goes behind it.) I am totally into what Mike is doing here and at HD4ND's. I think it is fine that Mike asks for donations on either site. Frankly though, I don't think I would pay on a per-tip basis. However, I see the quandry Mike is in because he has to make a living, and all this blogging is probably cutting into time that he could be getting paid very well. Also I think it is fine that Mike has a good quality high-def TV--HD is supposed to his expertise, and that's why we read his blog.

Mike Curtis said...

Thanks Matt, that helps. I deleted a couple of the more bitter and negative posts, and that put me in the mood to just can this whole thing if people were going to be like that - everybody send a valentine to ldpid or whoever that cranky poster was whose comment I deleted (Maybe he writes for one of the other new AppleTV sites? ;p )

-mike

Anonymous said...

How were you able to convert Casino Royale? I've been trying to convert my DVD without success. Looking on the MediaFork website says that it uses "Zero Cell".

Anonymous said...

I'm also curious about Casino Royale - I've had the hardest time with that one. I can't even get it to rip with advanced tools like RipIt4Me and AnyDVD on Windows.

Mike Curtis said...

Casino Royale - I noticed it logged 99 chapters when firing up - so they're obviously messing with it there somehow.

I just skipped the first chapter (title sequence) and it seemed to work from there, but I haven't watched the whole thing yet.

Keep in mind, I'm just doodling with it, this is just for media shifting purposes....

Anonymous said...

This past weekend I've been ripping DVDs (full disc) with Mac The Ripper to VOB files. I'm testing encoding of the VOB files using Visualhub and Mediafork to compare the differences.

Anamorphic support is something I'm still unsure about. I understand what it is but somewhat concerned about compatability of the output file.

Keep up the good work.

Unknown said...

˙no one uses visual hub!?

Anonymous said...

Ok, nice guide, but i am not sure if your anamorphic video played or not on apple tv. I read all over net, that anamorphic videos play on VLC & Co, but not on an apple product. It is wrong, because as you wrote, quicktime pro, allows manual aspect on videos. My test revealed that any movie with manual aspect ratio set in Quicltime play flawlessly in Quicktime, Itunes and Frontrow. But, they play on apple tv? That is the question. I dont' have an apple tv, and i can't test that, but i hope that you guys, who have it already to help a bit. It's clear that the best compromise between quality and occupied space is the anamorphic technique. As for aspect ratios, the mediafork tells you exactly how to set the movie in Quicktime. All you have to to is to get rid of the black bars, if any, and look at the bottom of the picture settings at the anamorphic resolution. That resolution must be set in quicktime.

Anonymous said...

And i forgot, the final resolution must fit in 960x540 at 25 or 30fps

Anonymous said...

Good article Mike

FYI; on the HandBrake web site

http://handbrake.m0k.org/

in the news section there is a blurb that states Media Fork and HandBrake are being combined. A new version renamed HandBrake will combine Media Fork and the old HandBrake with new features. It is due out any time.

Mike Curtis said...

anonymous about anamorphic playback - yeah they do

as for 960x540 - if 24fps, 1280x720 is possible

Anonymous said...

The key for your H.264 settings are actually semi hidden in your QT Pro. Go to QT Pro and select EXPORT and under H.264 adjust settings to the BEST settings under all the choices - especially TWO PASS ENCODING.

Then back to MediaFork/Handbrake - make sure DEINTERLACE is selected - that is crucial. Then your max bit rate can actually be lower. I generally go with 1300 but frankly once you have adjusted, I have set it as low as 900 and it doesn't seem to make a difference except for file size. Each 100 drop in bit rate is about a 5% drop in file size so if you want to squeeze a little more. I think movies that pretty much take place in daylight, you can drop a bit and dark/night time movies, you might up a little but the key are the settings in QT Pro.

This was a post I had doen a few months back that might be useful also in additiona to your info for the AppleTV.

http://metroxing.blogspot.com/2006/10/handbrake-mpeg4-or-h264.html

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but what is the benefit of going the anamorphic route and doing all the QT post work rather than simply allowing mediafork/handbrake to "keep aspect ratio". The latter process seems to work fine and is much simpler. Am I missing something?

Darryl Yee said...

you should try MPEG Streamclip http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html. I believe it can do everything quicktime pro can do and then some. and it's free!

Mike Curtis said...

Simon Says - if you're the same guy as the previously cranky anonymous posted, you may be personally responsible for a new policy - gotta have a login to post comments. Do you write for one of the other blogs?

The attacking tone and extreme negativity of the deleted posts are why they were removed.

I've also pulled the "ask for money" question because of the response. I just put it out there and got some very negative rude answers.

If people aren't polite and civil, their comments will be deleted.

-mike

Anonymous said...

When you say polite do you mean they must agree with your point of view or face deletion?

No I don't write for any site but I am able to find original information elsewhere rather than just links and comments.

Mike Curtis said...

Simon - ah, reasonable discourse, thank you, sincerely appreciated.

As it is my own blog, my general guideline is that don't say anything you wouldn't say face to face to someone at dinner among friends without looking like a jerk. It is entirely possible to disagree without being mean.

Anybody who disagrees is free to say so.

If I think they're being rude, or not constructive or adding to the conversation in a meaningful way, it is my site and I'll do what I think appropriate.

Folks can always go start appletvhackerislame.com to say whatever they want.

-mike

Unknown said...

Hi Mike,

Enjoyed reading this, as I have been wrestling with trying to get the best output possible from my Apple TV. My initial experience seemed to indicate that deinterlacing made the single biggest improvement in playback quality. However, I have read elsewhere that deinterlacing should not be necessary for most DVDs. Any thoughts on this?

Cheers!

Mike Curtis said...

De-interlacing - I specifically didn't de-interlace - if you're dealing with a movie, shot at 24 frames per second, it is actually encoded at that same 24 fps on the disc. Therefore no de-interlace required. De-interlacing will also reduce the vertical resolution, which WOULD let you drop the datarate, but at the expense of reduced quality - and that's what we're trying to avoid. Now, it if were regular video - 30 interlaced frames per second - then I'd say YES deinterlace when ripping.

Anonymous said...

FYI: 2-pass encoding is a waste of time unless you care about hitting a specific file size. Unless you're trying to fit an entire movie on a single CD, this is pretty unlikely.

You're much better off using the "Constant Quality" option and letting HandBrake decide how much to compress each frame. You can encode a single chapter using various different settings to find the best quality setting. I've found that somewhere between 60 and 64% yields reasonably-sized files (2 hr == 1.5 GB) and excellent quality.

Mike Curtis said...

Anonymous above -

really? Are you sure? I've been working with video compresion for more than 10 years, and 2 pass is ALWAYS worth doing in my experience.

And getting lower bandwidth is always desirable as well.

Unless you can proffer some hard evidence to back up that statement, I'd have to respectfully strongly disagree.

-mike

Mike Curtis said...

...especially with that limited 40GB drive...

Unknown said...

Thanks Mike,

Noobie question ...

How do you know if the original DVD is 30 fps and needs deinterlacing or 24 fps and doesn't need deinterlacing?

I've started with my kids' video collection, which is primarily animated movies. I started with one of my daughter's Barbie movies, which looked terrible until I tried the deinterlacing option. It would be great to know which movies need deinterlacing in advance.

There seems to be a lot of controversy about 1 versus 2 pass.

Cheers!

Mike Curtis said...

Phil - if it started life as a movie, it is probably 24p. If you leave the frame rate as "same as source" it'll tell you. If it was a TV show shot on video, it is probably interlaced.

As for 1 vs. 2 pass, I've been doing compression as part of my job for over 10 years.

2 pass is mo bettah.

Anonymous said...

Mike keep up the good work.. Some people just love to talk. Anyway I was wondering if you finish your test on Blood Diamond?

I'm stuck at the 720x360.. let me play around with it to see what happens. Let me know if you found out why my out reads 720 x 360

Mike Curtis said...

Rob - some people are just born to be cranky and negative and energy sucking - best avoided.

After sleep and rethinking it, SOMETHING less than 480 will be the result. I got to thinking about it this way, working backwards - in the end, we can't play it back any wider than 1920 pixels on an HD display. That means a 2.40:1 film would be, at most, 800 pixels tall. Scale 1920 down to 720, a 2.66 times reduction, then 300 pixels tall is as good as you'd get - 800/2.666=300.

But that's with square pixels. With anamorphic squeeze, our 16:9 square pixels have to fit to 4:3 image, but can get "taller" in the conversion - thus the 300 to 360 bump.

I think that's as much as we're getting...because that is as much as is THERE in the DVD - only 360 lines of resolution.

I love how wider aspects are pitched as "better" so often - when in fact the "wider" it gets, really the shorter it is getting. The aspect ratio may make for favorable and dramatic compositions, but lower resolution results...

So make your 720x360 file, then tweak it to play back at 854. I'll go update the article.

Unknown said...

Hi Mike,

I think your advice about deinterlacing is correct. The problem was that I started with my daughter's Barbie movie, which is one of those dime-a-dozen direct-to-DVD things. I guess I should have treated it as having come from a TV source.

I tried a Disney flick with no deinterlacing and got a very nice result. I cranked up the bit rate to 4000. I then ran the movie simultaneously on my Sony upscaling DVD player and the Apple TV and A/B switched between them. I really would have been hard pressed to tell the difference, and that was sitting close to the TV. Back at the couch, I was not able to tell a difference.

The DVDs I have been feeding into my computer all tend to have strange widths and/or heights after Mediafork does the autocrop. Plays well on the TV though. For anamorphic films, your technique works perfectly (just be sure to write down the anamorphic width that Mediafork provides so you can feed the correct number to QuickTime).

Great stuff! Now ... if they could just fix the 5.1 issue!

Cheers!

Mike Curtis said...

Thanks for the feedback Phil!

The next relevant question - how low can you go and it still looks good? From my years of compression testing, a suggestion: start too low and keep going up until it looks good enough instead of starting high and working down. Find a high action/motion chapter and just convert that - it'll be your worst case scenario...

THIS is the kind of user interaction I want....

Unknown said...

I guess for me time is a bigger issue than HD space. I'd rather rip at close to the max bitrate that Apple TV can handle. I've got hard drive space to spare (I stream the movies to the Apple TV). Also, what different people find acceptable in terms of bitrate will likely be very subjective, based on TV size, distance from TV, visual acuity, general level of anxiety about such things, etc.

Having said that, many people have suggested not going past 1500 ...

Cheers!

Anonymous said...

1) I found for me that 2000 makes it pretty much transparent with the original DVD. I'm a bit picky though, so lower probably isn't bad. YMMV

2) I noticed that by using this method I was unable to change the video artwork from within iTunes. I could reset the poster frame with different scenes from the movie, but I could NOT delete the frame and import a picture (like the movie poster, as I usually do). Is anybody else having this issue?

Anonymous said...

Great article! Last year I purchased a Mac Mini that I use as a Media center attached to my HDTV and I use Handbrake to rip over 300 of my own DVD's (no rentals, I agree that is wrong). I have generally been able to use 1500 as my bit rate setting. I started at 1200 but decided to bump it up.

Having done a lot of compression work in the past I too defaulted to 2 pass encoding. However, I accidently left it off once and found no noticable differnce after I ripped teh same flick as 2 pass. I have done a couple hundred movies since as 1 pass and have never looked back. It has saved a ton of time and I have never had a complaint. You can keep doing the 2 pass of course and there might be some improvement but I haven't found a compelling reason to go back and spend the time.

I have also been doing base instead of main encoding because it was reccomended but I have no clue what the difference is and would love to here more thoughts on that.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks again,
Ed

Anonymous said...

"...since a simple .mp4 file can't remember to display stretched, so it has to be a QuickTime movie...."

As a mater of fact, this is NOT correct.
mp4 containers can hold this information without any problem. (Just export with pass-trough - and the stretched display size will be stored correctly...)

Unknown said...

Mike,

Congrats on posting one of the best posts on this subject (that I have found in days of searching). I do have a couple comments though on how it could be improved. First off, I would like to mention the three sources I have been pulling my facts from are your post, this post http://www.thismuchiknow.co.uk/?p=34 (for sound reference), and the HandBrake message boards (specifically the ones related to the apple tv/ipod). My first suggestion to improve your method has to do with sound. Simply put, you would be better off selecting the 2 channel audio soundtrack in the sound settings in MediaFork. I believe this to be true for the following reasons (read the above sound link for more info.): if you select the 5.1 the current version of MediaFork will output a 2.0 stereo file, if the DVDs 2 channel soundtrack is encoded with Dolby Pro Logic and you have a Dolby Pro Logic / Surround capable receiver, then by ripping the 2 channel soundtrack, as opposed to the 5.1 channel soundtrack, you will get a surround sounds audio track with Dolby Surround, instead of just the 2.0 stereo you would get from the converted 5.1 soundtrack. Granted, this still isn't true Dolby Digital 5.1 sound but I hear it's the "surround" sound apple uses in their store movies. Hopefully the future version of HandBrake will be able to get us Dolby Pro Logic from the 5.1 soundtrack, or even better the Apple TV will be updated to allow us to rip the 5.1 track to 6-channel AAC and support it properly, as opposed to the weird thing it does now. My second suggestion is in agreement with the above post about changing the way your method uses QuickTime. From what I can tell pass through in superior to save-as a contained movie for the purposes of changing artwork in iTunes and having a .mp4 or .m4v file as opposed to a .mov. To use pass through you still adjust the pixels like you did in QuickTime but then instead of save-as a contained movie you select export and choose pass-through for both audio and video (for video it looked like I could not select pass-through until I changed something in a drop down menu on the video tab of the MP4 export options). This will give you a file that allows you to change the artwork in iTunes, and I have no reason to believe the quality would be any different than your save-as method, although I do not know for sure. My last comment has to do with anamorphic ripping in MediaFork. If you turn of the automatic cropping and zero out all the values in MediaFork (in the same window as the anamorphic option) it looks as though any DVD can be ripped at 720 by 480 anamorphic. However, in movies that are wider than a 1.77 aspect ratio, those extra pixels are just black bars used for making the movie wider. If the automatic setting is turned on you will just rip at something like 720 X (less than 480) since it's just not ripping the black wasted space (I use this setting). Some movies even have narrow black bars on the sides (and top/bottom), so if automatic is turned on you rip at something like 704 X 384 but you are still getting all the pixels that aren't black wasted space (I have noticed this mostly with movies that are 1.85 aspect ratio). What it boils down to is that I rip my movies with the Dolby 2.0 soundtrack (until the new HandBrake is out or until Apple TV correctly plays true 5.1 Dolby Digital), I always leave the automatic cropping on and do the anamorphic rip (it could be 720 X 480, 720 X 360, or something slightly less than 720). As far as what bit rate for audio and video to use, whether to use 1 pass or 2, and whether to use the main profile or the base, I am no expert. I use main (sounds like it should be better), 2250 for video bit rate (may be overkill), 2-pass (how could that hurt, aside from taking twice as long). I have found through many hours of testing that these anamorphic .mp4/.m4v files play on the Apple TV, they have Dolby Pro Logic simulated surround sound matrixed in a 2 channel track, they look incredible (as good as the DVD from what I can tell), and by using the pass-through method in QuickTime you can update the artwork (and other fields using the program Lostify). I have Apple TV compatible movies that sound/look better than or as good as the Apple store movies, which have all the tagging and extra what-not that an obsessive person requires. I am no expert; in fact my job has nothing to do with this field. I have learned all this since the Apple TV was released and I bought it. However, until someone gives me a reason to believe otherwise, this is the best way to get your DVD's onto Apple TV at the moment. (P.S. aside from mixing the 5.1 to Dolby Pro Logic, the next version of HandBrake will supposedly do the anamorphic part correctly too, rendering the QuickTime step pointless.)

Thank you to Mike for his post, Dave for the sound information, the HandBrake/MediaFork team for their software and expertise, and the MacTheRipper team for allowing people to get their DVDs onto Apple TV.

- Justin

Anonymous said...

Just to add something to clarify a couple of confusing comments:

There's a big difference between 1- and 2-passes, especially at bitrate 1000kbps and less. Pretty much anyone can see it, unless you're sitting miles from the TV.

However, if you rip using "constant quality" mode, there's very little difference, if any. About 64% will give you a bitrate somewhere under 2000, but it will vary from movie to movie. The downside is that the file size will vary somewhat, but it's the best way to get good-looking video quickly.

grant0830 said...

I just copied my first dvd and the sound would only work for ten minutes of the movie, was there somthing I did wrong?

Arthur said...

Just tried to rip DVD and only got the first 21 seconds. At that point both, Handbrake & Media Fork, stopped and said they were done. Any advice on how to get around???

traderart

Mike Curtis said...

traderart - not all DVDs will rip successfully unfortunately. Those are the two tools I know of that are worth a flip.

Try versiontracker.com to search for others perhaps?

Arthur said...

Since my last comment I found out that "SONY" DVD's can not be ripped. They have some protection which prevents ripping.

If anyone knows how to get around, please let me know.

Thanks all your comments.

traderart

Anonymous said...

If you are having problems with DVD's not rippig properly try using MactheRipper (you will need the latest version with CSS decypt). Rip the DVD to your hard drive. Then use Mediafork.
As a disclaimer you should only use these tools on DVD's that you own.

Anonymous said...

too many comments.. head hurts.

I use anamorphic CRF q 0.6
which is "Contant quality", CRF rather than CQP, quality 60%.

I like it because it varies the bitrate and hence file size as necessary for constant good quality. This saves space and is *much* quicker than 2 pass. Using a second pass isn't important with CRF (constant rate factor, which tries for constant perceived quality) because it's not restricted by filesize in the first pass, so on a second pass the bits should already be allocated very well!

Using a quality of 63% or 65% produces even better results without the files getting almost as big as the DVD itself.

As you're doing of course using x264 Main rather than baseline, as the baseline is for devices that can't cope with high complexity (e.g. iPods) and you would need to increase the bitrate / file size by at least 10% usually, oir maybe even more, to keep it the same quality as the main profile.

I am considering rippid the 5.1 tracks separately and adding them on (or swapping them iwth the two channel track) in the future if there becomes support for it.

Dan said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

you may also see this http://www.dvdtoappletv.org ,DVD and Videos to Apple TV site(Mac/Windows) for help...the windows converter works great for me.

Anonymous said...

Does anybody have working ffmpeg command line example to convert DV to MP4 for Apple TV?

Mike Curtis said...

Dan- no blog trolling please. Post a direct link to something useful if you're going to post, not to your front page please.

Also, WHY are your settings better? Otherwise is just blog trolling.

Anonymous said...

For those of you struggling ripping films like Casino Royale or just about any Sony movie you will likely need two programs. The current version of Mac the Ripper will rip any dvd at this time. Then you can use DVD2oneX to analyze the cells and remove these now "infamous" zero cells from the video_ts folder. You can then run the video_ts file through mediafork

Unknown said...

Here's my big question:

Once you've ripped material from a DVD, how do you get it to appear in the "TV Shows" section of iTunes & TV instead of the "Movies" section?

Mike Curtis said...

Todd - good question, I'm sure it is a metadata tagging issue, I just don't know exactly where.

I've been swamped with work, taxes, family stuff, so not nearly as much time as I'd thought to play with all this stuff.

-mike

Anonymous said...

Todd -
I've changed a bunch of ripped videos from "Movie" to "Music Video" by highlighting my mp4 file and pressing "Get Info". On the Video tab, you can select the video type. I'm guessing here, but you can probably select "TV show" here...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous -

If you use the latest version of MacTheRipper (314d) - which is donation ware - you don't need the second software package. MTR 314d handles every Sony DVD I've tried (including Casino Royale) without any problem. You just need to use "Main Feature" mode.

Anonymous said...

Todd-
Forgot to mention - I changed the video type within iTunes - by highlighting the mp4 file - doing a "Get Info" - then selecting the video tab to adjust the type....
Sorry for not being more clear initially...

Unknown said...

IL & Mike -

No worries, it actually turns out that one of the utilities Mike just posted about on the main page, Lostify, is dead on. It uses another command line utility for changing the metadata, called AtomicParsley.

So far Lostify is frustrating because you have to change each file one at a time, and it takes several minutes to change each 360 MB file. I have three seasons of TV shows to do (over 70 files), so that's not a great solution. With AtomicParsley, though, I should be able to put together a shell script that will get the job done so I can fire it up and walk away.

Thanks...

Anonymous said...

I only use

Mac the Ripper Free and

iSquint. I upgraded to Visual Hub to be able to convert AVIs to MP4s.

Plus you can batch the conversions which is nice when I have 5-6 VIDEO_TS folders

Anonymous said...

ok I just converted my first movie following the instructions in this article and the video conversion looks great. Only problem is that the audio track cuts off after 10 minutes. Not sure what happened. I played through various parts of the video_ts folder using dvd player and the 5.1 track plays fine throughout. Anyone else have this problem?

Anonymous said...

Great tip. I put CARS on my Apple TV for my kid today, though the 720 res was better than the higher one. Here's an outside the box question: Itunes won't let me add artwok to the completed movie so it just shows the first frame as the artwork. Any idea how to hack this. Thanks again.

Anonymous said...

umm rocky had that copy protection i guess as casino royale.... almost 24 hours later.. its still not done.... i have a brand 17inch mbp///.... what gives

Anonymous said...

24 hours and the first 15 minutes of the movie are gone lol that was a waste of time

Unknown said...

Mike,
Overall good for someone like yourself with a large screen tv. I'm not so sure about the anamorphic setting though.
Based on the max for a 5th Gen Video iPod and AppleTV you should:
-File Format: MP4 file
-Codecs: AVC/H.264 Video / AAC Audio (I've been using the iPod one here, have to test using this one and see if it works ok on the iPod.)
-Video Average bitrate at: 1500 (which is around what all the movies I've bought from iTunes use already)
-Anamorphic off and make sure that the max width is 640 and max height is 480
-Audio Lanugage 1: English (AC3) (5 ch) where available
-Sample rate (Hz): 48
-Bitrate (kbps): 160
This output size will be about 10 megs for 1 min. So a 2 hour movie is close to 1.2 gigs.

Anonymous said...

The program Lostify, which I heard about on ilounge (where I also found a link to this article) helps you change most relevant data on the movie file including comments, categories, etc. What it does when I convert is process the tag with your selected movie, creating a new movie file with a tagged suffix so you know which is the altered file. Once this is done, drag the new file into itunes and it will display properly. As for changing a movie poster/cover etc. It seems you can select the movie file in itunes, go to get info-artwork, then you can place a picture there but only 1 for m4v files. Now if only Apple will create a true power-off switch or a heat-sink that keeps my Apple TV from heating my entire apartment (no setting the screen saver off doesn't always do all that much)

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike,

Thanks a bunch for the these instructions. Any changes with the new HandBrake application that just came out?

Looks like the presets are very convenient.

Thanks in advance,

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike,

What I did and it seems to work (I have a standard TV) is to convert the movie in handbrake with the Keep apsect ratio checked.

When I play the movie through AppleTV, it is very horizontally squashed or vertically stretched.

So in Quicktime, I went into the Show Movie Properties settings and scaled the horizontal to 854 keeping the verticle at whatever it is.

Then save it out as a .mov. When I play it through AppleTV, I see the full width of the movie and the height falls where it falls. Some black bars are taller and some shorter depending on the movie but all faces look normal and not stretched.

Not sure how these movies might play on a HDTV but they seem to play well on a regular TV in 480p or i.

I hope this information is OK to post as I would hate to missdirect someone if it is wrong so please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

One more thing, when I have a 640x480 movie, I need to stretch the 640 to 854 in QT and then when it plays through AppleTV, it looks like to should.

Very strange.

Mike Curtis said...

Anonymous above - that's actually as expected, since AppleTV is anticipating a 16:9 aspect ratio instead of 4:3, so by playing back at a wider than usual width, you are un-squishing the image to be...as it should, but on this non-standard (for AppleTV anyway), non-supported device. That'll work, but just keep in mind that it'll look funny when played anywhere else.

Anonymous said...

So does this mean that my video I am ripping will be usable if I get a HDTV? I guess I can resize my movies if a different format is required for HDTV.

Anonymous said...

Why when I save out some movies in Quicktime as a .mov, they work in AppleTV and others don't?

Seems like when the original is a AVI or DIVX and I save out as .mov it's not recognized by AppleTV but when I save it out as MPEG4, it works?

Mike Curtis said...

Anonymous - you're on the right track - AppleTV only supports MPEG-4 and H.264 within certain frame size/rate/datarate parameters.

So just resaving as .mov won't guarantee playback.

-mike

Anonymous said...

Hey Everyone. This was a fantastic tutorial, though I have a question. When ripping a dvd, it plays fine in quicktime and itunes, but when brought over to the apple tv, it removes the black bars along the top and the bottom, almost as if it stretches to fit the screen, which in turn cuts of less than 1/4 of an inch on the left and right side. How can I get it to display identical to a dvd with the borders along the top and bottom. I prefer widescreen to full screen any day....lol.

Thanks!!

Anonymous said...

mike, i'm using 0.8.5b1 and oceans eleven defaults to 720x304 (source 720x480) can you explain?

thanks for your work

Mike Curtis said...

Anon above -

ASPECT.

RATIO.

Read article.

Anonymous said...

has anyone got a good technique for batch processing these.

for instance could i copy the dvd's video_ts directory to my local drive and encode 5 or 6 a night?

Anonymous said...

I answered my own question by just reading the User Guide. For anyone else whos interested:

http://handbrake.m0k.org/trac/wiki/Sources

and then look into Handbrakes Queue feature

imjeffp said...

What I'd really like would be a method to play VIDEO_TS folders via AppleTV, complete with menus and bonus features. The goal would be to eliminate the bookshelf of DVDs the same way iTunes eliminated the shelves of CDs.

I've played with DVD Assist, which works great in Front Row. I don't know how/if it works with the ATV though.

The upside would be no re-compressing (and the time associated with that), multiple audio tracks (2 & 5.1 audio) and the bonus features. Downside would be potentially larger amounts of storage needed, but $/MB historically goes down.

mattylees__ said...

Nice write up mike, just read through all the comments too and I still can't really understand all this aspect ratio stuff..

As the last poster said above, I am also interested to know if this is possible?

Matt

Anonymous said...

I have tried hand brake and MTB to rip CasinoRoyale but will not work ,then I tried handbrake and skipped chapter 1 and left only 2 to 28 and it ripped it ,so how/or what should I do to get this dvd rip done right and the worry about the aspect ratio!
Respect MacRider.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I am a newbie and yes on a pc. don't be hating. I did how ever bought an Apple TV and love it.

I am trying Handbrake for windows and I am trying to use the same settings as you have for the mac ver. so wish me luck. I will let ya'll know what happens.

As for 007, I ripped it with no problems in windows using anydvd and ImTOO DVD.

Anonymous said...

AppleTV with MediaFork... Finally found really useful information on the topic, thank you.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mike,
I just stumbled across this in Google and you saved me alot of time. I am an audio guy and had a .dv file that is 720 X 480. Everytime I tried to convert to H264 or whatever and burnt it in iDVD it always was "squashed" horizontally. Thanks to your "uncheck preserve ratio" and 854 trick in QT Pro, it's working perfect. Unrelated to what you were showing everyone but I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU! Cheers, CS

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the nice post!

Anonymous said...

I've been trying to rip DVD to apple tv for ages. Its best to download a freeware ripper program from Freeware DVD Rippers. Theres loads on there.

Anonymous said...

Mike,

Might you update this with the new HandBrake, 0.9.2, which has many fixes, and a template for Apple TV.

I have ripped some DVDs using this, pretty fast and looks great. Wonder if you have any feedback on tweaking the Apple TV template (2 Pass encoding, etc)

macguitarman

Anonymous said...

Hey im kinda new at this but cant you just skip using QT and just encode the video straight to 854 x 480? would there be anything wrong with that?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike...

Great stuff, yours and all the rest I read. I've finally converted my entire movie collection plus TV series to Mp4...(it took like 2 years, and yes, I own them all).
Thats around 700 movies plus all of Star Trek (OS, NG, and STV) and the ongoing TV series like Greys, House.

Using mainly Handbrake and some Visual Hub to do the work plus Lostify and MetaX for the metadata.

Funnily though I still get movies that convert fine, but fail to show on the Apple TV even though I rip them exactly the same. Case in point:
Bridget Jones Diary and Bridgets Diary II...the first was fine from the word go, but I've ripped the second maybe 3 times and it still doesn't show up.

Now due to the sheer volume I've had to deal with, I don't bother anymore with troublesome ones like this, and I must admit, my percentage of success is like 99% so I can walk away happy, but has anyone else met this type of issue?

To think I started this with a mac mini in the lounge, we now have 3 mac minis with their own HDDs and 2 apple TVs, streaming from my iMac in the office. Its a monster of a setup now. And 3 years ago, I bought the first mac mini!!!!

Finally I've got time to start seeing if I can either help others or get some help for those odd problems.

Mark

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This comment has been removed by the author.
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Anonymous said...

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Go.Identity said...

MediaFork isn't reading all of the chapters on the DVD. From the original DVD, The Door in the Floor. MediaFork reads 1 of 1 chapters for 25Mins. I've seen this before with Handbrake. Anyone know whats going on?

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